Christian believes the AI era will be defined less by generating outputs and more by evaluating them. As intelligence becomes cheaper and more accessible, the people who create the most value may be those who can distinguish good work from exceptional work and help guide increasingly capable systems.

The conversation explores verification, judgment, and why expertise still matters in a world where AI can perform many tasks at a high level. Christian explains why today's experts are both highly valuable and simultaneously training the systems that may eventually replace parts of their work.

Jeremy and Henrik also explore what this means at a personal level. They discuss building AI agents that reflect your own preferences, creating personal verification systems, and why AI may make it easier to learn new skills, switch careers, and pursue more ambitious ideas.

Key Takeaways:

• Verification becomes more valuable as intelligence gets cheaper
  As AI makes generating outputs easier, the ability to recognize what is actually good becomes increasingly important.
• Experts are training their own replacements
  The people best positioned to verify AI outputs are also helping codify the expertise that trains future systems.
• Human value shifts from doing to directing
  As AI handles more execution, people create value through judgment, direction, and orchestration.
• Build your own verification system
  The best AI users are developing agents, workflows, and tools that reflect their own preferences and standards.

Christian's LinkedIn: linkedin.com/ccatalini/
Christian's website: catalini.com
Economics of AGI: full paper
Jeremy's Persona File Template: YouTube/The8Files

00:00 Non-Measurable Frontiers
00:32 Meet Christian Catalini
01:08 The Economics of AGI
03:09 Why Verification Matters
06:37 Can Everything Be Measured?
10:32 The Rise of the Verifier
14:35 When Intelligence Gets Cheap
21:46 Building Your Verification Harness
24:08 Human + AI Augmentation
30:18 Persona Files and Privacy
33:12 Reasons for Optimism
36:00 Career Switching in the AI Era
39:31 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode:

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Chantel Prat studies how different brains make sense of the world. Her work starts from a simple idea: every experience leaves a mark. The inputs we consume shape how we think, what we notice, and ultimately who we become.

The conversation explores why people often choose familiar rewards over uncertain opportunities to learn. Chantel explains the tension between exploration and exploitation, why curiosity is essential for growth, and how fear can prevent us from engaging with new technologies like AI.

They also discuss theory of mind, cognitive offloading, and what happens when we increasingly rely on AI for thinking. The goal is not simply to do better work, but to use AI in ways that help us become better versions of ourselves.

Key Takeaways:

• Curiosity requires safety
  When people feel threatened, they become defensive rather than exploratory. Fear gets in the way of learning.
• Better inputs create better outputs
  Every experience leaves a footprint on the brain. The ideas, conversations, and information we consume shape how we think and who we become.
• We naturally favor certainty over exploration
  Our brains are biased toward familiar rewards, even when something new may offer greater long-term value.
• Curiosity starts with admitting you might be wrong
  Learning requires recognizing that you do not already have the answer. Without that openness, exploration never begins.
• Use AI to become better, not just produce more
  The most important question is not what AI can do for you, but what you still want to get better at yourself.

Chantel Prat: linktr.ee/chantelprat
The Neuroscience of You: The-Neuroscience-of-you/book

00:00 Curiosity Versus Threat
00:31 Meet Chantel Prat
01:02 Why Input Shapes Brains
04:08 The Output Pressure Trap
05:52 Exploration Versus Exploitation
10:05 Average Brains And Teams
15:35 Theory Of Mind Defined
22:12 Practicing With AI Feedback
24:31 Offloading Thinking To AI
29:50 Humans In The Loop
35:16 Age And Tech Reactions
42:15 Why Curiosity Requires Safety
48:15 Personal Codex And AI
50:54 Becoming More Yourself
54:34 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: why-fear-kills-curiosity-and-what-that-means-for-ai-with-chantel-prat-cognitive-neuroscientist/transcript

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup and the newly released Incorruptible, joins Beyond the Prompt to explore why most companies drift from their original mission over time. The conversation dives into governance, shareholder primacy, Anthropic’s unusual structure, and why AI makes these questions more important than ever.

Eric Ries argues that most companies are built on a contradiction. Founders say they care about customers and impact, but legally, the company is structured to serve shareholders first. Over time, that mismatch tends to win.

The conversation explores what that looks like in practice, why it is so hard to fix, and how a small number of companies have tried to design around it from the beginning. Eric reflects on advising Anthropic in its earliest days and what it actually takes to protect a mission as a company scales.

A big part of the discussion is how governance gets treated as a legal formality when it is really a design problem. In the age of AI, Eric argues that the principles baked into a company’s structure early on may determine whether it stays true to its mission or slowly drifts away from it.

Key Takeaways:

• Mission drift is often built in from day one
  Founders may say they care about customers and impact, but legally the company is structured to serve shareholders first. Over time, that mismatch tends to win.
• Governance is one of the highest leverage founder decisions
  If the structure is misaligned early on, founders can lose control of the company and its mission no matter how strong the original vision was.
• The system is stacked against mission-driven founders
  Even well-intentioned founders operate inside structures designed to prioritize short-term shareholder returns. Most do not realize it until it is too late.
• “Why not try?” is more powerful than it sounds
  Eric’s argument is not that fixing governance is easy. It is that most founders never even ask the question.
• AI makes this more urgent than ever
  As AI systems act more autonomously, the principles built into a company early on will shape whether it stays true to its mission or drifts away from it.
  

Eric's new book:
Amazon: Incorruptible
Website: incorruptible.co
Socials:
X: x.com/ericries
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/ericries
The Lean Startup: theleanstartup.com

00:00 Mission vs Shareholder Value
00:32 Meet Eric Ries
01:37 Why Anthropic Needed Governance
06:47 The Long-Term Benefit Trust
10:00 Why Great Companies Drift
13:47 From Lean Startup to Incorruptible
18:14 Is It Too Late To Fix?
23:06 Governance As A Superpower
25:48 The Lies Founders Tell Themselves
28:49 The Rise Of Shareholder Primacy
33:09 The Unaccountability Machine
35:51 Profit vs Human Flourishing
37:24 The ROI Trap
38:26 The H-E-B Loyalty Story
41:14 Principles Beyond Metrics
42:54 AI, Thick Data, And Human Judgment
46:43 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: why-your-favorite-brand-stopped-caring-about-you-eric-ries-author-of-the-lean-startup/transcript

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.