Three years ago, Jennifer Moss came on Better at Work and gave us a line that stuck: we can't yoga our way out of a bad boss.

She's back. New book. Sharper take.

Jennifer is a burnout researcher and workplace culture strategist whose new book Why Are We Here? Creating a Work Culture Everybody Wants is her third on this space and one of the most useful Cathal has read this year.

In this conversation:

→ Why hope is collapsing at work, especially for under-25s (the World Happiness Report numbers are bleak)

→ Charles Snyder's hope theory and why agency is the piece most leaders miss

→ Why a compliant team isn't a loyal team, it's a team where hope is dying

→ The real cost of layoffs to the people who stay

→ Phobos and the 1 in 2 stat on AI anxiety from Microsoft's Work Trend Index

→ Why most micromanagers are frightened, not malicious

→ The 5-step compassionate leadership framework for AI transitions

→ Why "I'm an ally" framing has made diversity work fragile, and the reframe that fixes it

→ Optimal distinctiveness: fitting in and standing out at the same time

→ Three things leaders can do this week

Jennifer references Adam Grant, Lindsay McIntyre (formerly of Microsoft), Amy Gallo, Claudia Goldin, Robin Dunbar, and case studies from companies including Patagonia and Bright Horizons.

Find Jennifer at jennifer-moss.com and on LinkedIn.

Better at Work is hosted by Cathal Quinlan. New episodes every Thursday 7am.

If this one resonated, share it with someone on your team who needs it.

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What if the colleague who drives you up the wall is the one your organisation can't afford to lose?

Cathal and Annette are back for a listener-questions special, picking up where last week's conversation with David [surname TBC], former Head of Design at Tesla, left off. The idea that stuck: every team has Mad Hatters and White Rabbits. The Mad Hatters bring the wild, disruptive, sometimes maddening ideas. The White Rabbits keep things running on time. Most organisations over-index on one and quietly punish the other, which is exactly how you lose the creative edge that made you competitive in the first place.

Cathal shares why the framework hit home, why psychological safety matters more than surface-level politeness, and why "I don't agree with you" should be a welcome sentence in any good team. He also references his recent LinkedIn post on the thing nobody tells you when you become a manager for the first time: there's no handbook. You're going to get it wrong sometimes. That's fine, as long as you keep showing up and keep supporting the ideas.

Then the listener question. Michelle wrote in from retail. She's covering two to three people's roles on her normal shifts and being called in on her days off. She's drained. She can't say no. She's breaking. Annette and Cathal unpack it honestly and the reframe is the gold: the days-off problem isn't the real problem. The root cause is the workload. And there's a way to raise it with her manager that doesn't torch the relationship, with a Plan B ready if it doesn't land.

Expect the glass-of-water stress analogy, a useful reframe on supporting failure at work, and a reminder that the people who held the retail and service economy together through Covid deserve better than being treated as infinitely elastic.

In this episode:

• Why Mad Hatters and White Rabbits need each other
• The LinkedIn post Cathal wrote about becoming a manager
• Why feeling threatened by a different viewpoint is a trap
• The glass of water and what stress does when you hold it too long
• How Michelle can raise the workload conversation, with a Plan B ready

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome back

01:35 Recap: David on curiosity at Tesla

05:38 The Mad Hatter and the White Rabbit

11:06 Why entrepreneurial thinkers need air cover

12:15 No handbook for being a manager

14:05 Why supporting failure is a leadership skill

15:03 Listener question: Michelle is running on empty

19:08 The glass of water test

20:14 How to reframe the conversation upwards

25:20 Respect for frontline workers

26:15 Next week: Jennifer Moss returns

Mentioned in this episode:

• Last week's interview with David Imai, former Head of Design at Tesla (Apple, Spotify, YouTube)
• Cathal's recent LinkedIn post on becoming a manager
• Next week: Jennifer Moss, author of Why Are We Here? Creating a Work Culture Everyone Wants

Got a career dilemma of your own?

Send it in. We'll take it on anonymously, just like Michelle's. Details at betteratwork.net

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New episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify and YouTube. Hit follow so you don't miss Jennifer Moss.

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For 14 years, David Imai was a Design Director at Tesla, helping shape every car the company put on the road. Before that, GM and Opel. Today he advises the startups building the future of transport and robotics, and he's obsessed with one question: why do the best ideas keep dying inside big organisations?

His answer will surprise you.

Every team has two types of people. The Mad Hatter, who throws out wild, half-formed, maybe-genius ideas. And the White Rabbit, who gets things done on time. Most workplaces only protect one of them, and it's almost always the wrong one. That's why your best thinking never makes it out of the meeting room.

In this episode, David sits down with Cathal (his old London housemate, small world) to unpack the three things every curious culture needs. Why psychological safety isn't optional. Why Tesla sends its robotics engineers to Disney Imagineering. And the one habit that separates teams that innovate from teams that talk about innovating.

If you've ever walked out of work wondering why nobody listens to your best ideas, press play. This is the episode.

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