A deeper dive into Acid Sulfate Soils. In a slightly QLD centric episode, Gunnar and James are joined by all three main authors of the QLD ASS Management Guidelines, widely regarded as the best ASS guidelines in the world.

Sue-Ellen Dear is a Senior Land Resource Officer with the QLD Department of Natural Resources and Mines and has contributed to acid sulfate soil policy and guidance since 1996. She is lead author of the QLD ASS Management Guidelines.

Kristie Williams has spent nearly 25 years in the QLD government soils team, working across ASS, salinity, erosion and land resource assessment. She has authored technical reports, contributed to regulations and assessed developments from small works to major canal estates.

Dr Angus McElnea developed the SPOCAS method, co-authored Australian and international standards and is a NATA technical assessor.

They unpack how acid sulfate soils form and what really happens when these soils are disturbed. They cover pyrite formation, potential vs actual acid sulfate soils and the “trinity of acidities” and then discuss real-world management challenges.

They put forward avoidance of disturbing ASS as the first priority, the realities of liming and mixing on treatment pads, the controversy around acid neutralising capacity, and why incubation testing matters. They talk about strategic reburial, the pros and cons of centralised treatment facilities, the carbon cost of treating ASS, and the industry’s tendency toward conservative safety factors (with a small Gu-rant - they are always audience favourites so we hear)

The episode finishes with validation testing, safe reuse of treated soils and the future of professional certification through the Registered Soil Practitioner scheme.

If you work in contaminated land, coastal development, infrastructure or groundwater, this episode is essential listening.

Links:

BTS #23: The Basics: Acid Sulfate Soil

Legislation and policies for ASS management in Qld

ASS guidance material

Retained Acidity Technical Note

SNAS correction by NATA

Gunnar loves ASS

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

How much of any given contaminant is actually taken up into human bodies?

If we think about it, that is one of the single most important things to consider as an environmental consultant when reporting on a site's contamination status, yet it is not something that is very often done. Gunnar and James are yet again soaring with an industry eagle as they set out to get better at that very aspect of consulting.

They chat with Dr Albert Juhasz, a Research Professor at the Future Industries Institute, internationally recognised for cross-disciplinary research on contaminant bioavailability and human health exposure. He has led development of one of the world’s largest contaminant bioavailability databases and advanced in vitro methods now applied at more than 100 contaminated sites across Australia.

His work has informed national and international exposure assessment policy, including the ASC NEPM and EnHealth Guidelines, and influenced regulatory guidance in the US, Canada and New Zealand. Albert is a senior journal editor, WHO consultant, contaminated-site auditor adviser, and a highly cited researcher (H-index 37).

The episode was recorded on 7 November 2025

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The 2025 Year in Review (That Wasn’t Supposed to Happen)

What started as a neat 15-minute intro quietly turned into a full end-of-year wrap-up. Classic Below the Surface. Gunnar and James get side-tracked almost immediately and eventually realise they have recorded the accidental 2025 BTS year in review. They cover listener feedback, behind-the-scenes stats, favourite episodes and a special mention for Sandgate.

Personal obsessions make an appearance, with both sharing their top five podcasts of the year. Strong opinions, minimal overlap, and proof that podcast hosts mostly listen to other podcasts.

On the technical front, Gunnar explains why the new AS 5370 feels like a step backwards, followed by a familiar rant on mandatory low-speed EV noise in Australia. EVs also feature heavily, including the claim that at least 11 new electric vehicles have hit Sydney roads thanks to a BTS episode.

The EPA gets its own moment, with discussion of recent turmoil, announcements that feel straight out of Utopia, and Gunnar’s practical solution to the EPA’s budget problems. They finish with updates on Resource Recovery Orders, the new ASS RRO, and thoughts on a possible National EPA.

Unplanned, slightly chaotic, and very on brand. A fitting way to wrap up 2025.

Links:

Gunnar's Top 5 Podcasts

The Tennis Podcast

Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Andy Roddick's Served Podcast

The Michael Shermer Show

Joe Rogan (his interview with Lance Armstrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEfSdPz1WtA)

All the other podcasts Gunnar subscribes to in one handy link

James' favourites

The Imperfects Podcast

Two Broke Watch Snobs

Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny | Australian Studies Institute

The Rights to Ricky Sanchez - A podcast about the Philadelphia 76ers

The Art of Manliness

This BTS Episode was recorded on 12 December 2025

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

What it's really like to be regulated?

Regulators, take note - this one’s for you.

We are shining the light on the third corner of the Regulator – Consultant – Client relationship: the Client.

What’s it really like to be on the receiving end of regulation? Do operators of licensed facilities feel supported … or just scrutinised? Are those hefty licence fees worth it? And is there a fair playing field between the licensed and the “let’s-pretend-we-don’t-need-a-licence” crowd?

Of course, it’s not all about the regulators, consultants, you’ll want to listen too.
What do clients actually expect from us? What builds trust, and what breaks it?

To kick off this new series, Gunnar and James sit down with Anthony Alpen, Founder and CEO of Tank Management Australia (TMA). As the head of an IBC (Intermediate Bulk Container) reconditioning company, working under a strict EPL, Anthony knows first-hand what it means to navigate the regulatory maze.

Sure, it sounds a bit dry on paper, but, as always, Gunnar and James find the sweet spot between serious insights and a few good laughs. It’s smart, it’s honest, and it’s the kind of chat that’ll make both regulators and consultants think twice (in a good way).

The episode was recorded on 10 October 2025.

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The NSW Health PFAS Advice includes quite some statements:

• “The health effects of PFAS appear to be small.”
• “… there was definite evidence of increased psychological distress in … exposed communities, evidence for other adverse health outcomes from this study was limited.”
• “Interventions that reduce blood PFAS are of uncertain benefit and may cause harm.”

These comments seem at odds with much of the mainstream media's presentation around PFAS. Or even the recently drastically reduced drinking water guidelines or Version 3 of the National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) for PFAS. On top of that, the statements are unusually direct for a government public health communication, which made us curious to understand how NSW Health had arrived at these conclusions.

To find out, Gunnar and James reached out to NSW Health. Their media team was quick to respond and connected them with two members of the expert advisory panel:

• Dr Claire Hooker – Associate Professor, Health Humanities and Arts and Health, Sydney Health Ethics
• Prof Martyn Kirk – National Centre for Epidemiology and Population Health, Australian National University

Speaking with these distinguished researchers was a privilege. Despite being a little star-struck, Gunnar and James kept their cool and recorded one of their most insightful conversations to date.

This episode was recorded on 30 September 2025 and it is dense with evidence, reasoning, and nuance - it’s well worth your full attention.

Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Gunnar (without James this time) gives it a go to get to the bottom of the very basics of what we need to think of around stormwater on a site. There are few better suited to talk about the subject than our guest Mircea Stancu, the founder of Cleanstormwater.

Mircea is a civil engineer, software engineer and, you guessed it, an expert in anything related to stormwater. He is also quite a flamboyant guest and he and Gunnar managed to put together a show case of the very best of (what Gunnar at least calls) attractive European accents.

The two of them briefly talk about a dispute between Mircea and Melbourne Water, played out publicly on LinkedIn. If you feel like a little bit of entertainment, grab your popcorn and have a look at these videos:

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7185803882801848320

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7209037421026369536

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7215890816471302146

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7213783068518596609

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7211555577947127808

https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7261621640537481216

https://www.cleanstormwater.com.au/

https://au.linkedin.com/in/mircea-stancu-193048108

Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course

The episode was recorded on 5 June 2025.

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

James K (James Karagiannis) has personally completed a stack of waste classifications. And in addition, he has reviewed somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 reports written by other consultants for our clients. That gives him a rare, panoramic view of what great looks like … and what misses the mark.

Gunnar and Hammond, James Hammond, sit down with him to unpack what he sees when reviewing these reports.

The original plan was to listen to James K. But with Gunnar’s well-known habit of let’s say, sharing his thoughts, and Hammond’s nerdy knowledge in resource recovery and compliance, there may have been a little more talking than listening at times.

Still, we think you’ll enjoy the conversation, have a few laugh and maybe even pick up a few tips to sharpen your own waste classification skills. Enjoy!

The episode was recorded on 11 September 2025.

Links mentioned in the episode:

Electric Vehicles are allowed to use transit lanes in NSW

NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS

Our interview with NSW Health Panel members on the PFAS Health Advice

Nightcrawler on Netflix

Episode with Linda Apthorpe on asbestos in soils analysis

Episode with Pierina Otness on how to sample for asbestos in soil on a site

Episode with Ross McFarland about sampling and Decision Units

Gunnar's method of re-running samples accountably

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Tony Chappel, the CEO of the NSW EPA, is our guest today, so we are definitely back with a bang after the summer holidays.

Gunnar and James are (surprisingly!) well-prepared and keep the conversation on track as they dive into Tony’s journey to leading the EPA, his early priorities, the role of politics in environmental regulation, and the importance of deep listening in leadership. They explore everything from the OCSE paper and the EPA's potential collaboration with industry bodies, to the tricky disconnect between waste and contaminated sites, the zero-tolerance stance on asbestos in waste, updates to the ASC NEPM, and the growing pressures on landfill capacity.

And yes, Gunnar did try for a get-out-of-jail-free card from Tony… but no luck this time (nice try, though)!

Three experts, one great conversation, and a rare look into the leadership and direction of the NSW EPA. This is definitely one episode you won’t want to miss.

Links mentioned:
NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS

Our Interview with NSW Health Panel Members about this advice (recorded a few weeks after this episode went live)

Draft ASS Order and Exemption

Recorded on 19 August 2025

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond