What happens when an industry built on “sustainability talk” is forced to confront the reality of its own impacts? In this hard‑hitting conversation, Professor Harold Goodwin — one of the world’s most influential voices in responsible tourism — joins Ged Brown to dismantle the myths, expose the contradictions, and challenge the complacency that still dominates global tourism.

Together they explore:

• Why responsible tourism is still misunderstood — and too often misused
• The tragedy‑of‑the‑commons problem at the heart of modern travel
• How Airbnb reshaped destination control
• Why climate change is already rewriting seasonality
• The uncomfortable truth about “business as usual”
• What destinations must do now if they want to use tourism rather than be used by it
• Why transparency, evidence, and action matter more than ever

Harold also shares insights on the upcoming Tourism Seasonality Summit in Rimini, where ICRT global joins as the official Impact & Responsibility Partner.

This is not a gentle conversation — it’s a necessary one.

If you care about the future of tourism, you’ll want to hear every minute.

In this episode of Balancing Tourism, host Ged Brown moderates a panel at the CAPA Airline Leaders Forum in Athens on one of the industry’s most pressing challenges: overtourism.

Ahead of the forthcoming Tourism Seasonality Summit and with international arrivals surging past pre‑pandemic levels, destinations across Europe and beyond are facing grassroots protests, new regulations, and mounting pressure to rethink tourism flows. Airlines, often seen as enablers of mass travel, are now being asked: what role can they play in creating more sustainable, balanced tourism?

Panelists:

• Peter Glade, Chief Commercial Officer, TUI Airline

• Majid Khan, CEO, Saudi Air Connectivity Program

• Sascha Feuerherd, Senior Associate Partner, Aviado Partners

Key Themes:

• Why “overtourism” is really about mismanagement of tourism capacity

• How airlines can diversify routes and extend seasons to ease pressure on hotspots

• The impact of tourism taxes and regulations on demand and network planning

• Aligning aviation strategies with national tourism visions

• The importance of engaging local communities and stakeholders in shaping tourism futures

Takeaway: Airlines cannot solve overtourism alone, but they can be powerful partners in redistributing demand, supporting sustainable destination strategies, and ensuring tourism remains in harmony with local communities.

The conversations will continue in Rimini at the forthcoming Tourism Seasonality Summit no doubt.

In this episode of the Balancing Tourism Podcast, Ged Brown sits down with Michael Moriarty, Managing Director of Hong Kong Disneyland Resort, for a fascinating conversation about the past, present, and future of the iconic theme park.

Recorded at Routes World in Hong Kong, this interview offers valuable insights into how one of the world's leading tourist destinations manages growth, complexity, and customer expectations.

Key Takeaways

• The Evolution of Hong Kong Disneyland: Michael Moriarty reflects on the park's 20-year journey, from its opening as the first Disney park in China to its latest expansion with the "World of Frozen." He discusses the park's unique, intimate layout and its exclusive attractions that have become a core part of its identity.

• The Shift to Experiential Tourism: The conversation delves into the changing expectations of guests over the past two decades. Moriarty highlights the move away from "transactional tourism" towards a desire for shared, immersive experiences. This is exemplified by the trend of guests dressing up as their favorite characters, a form of self-expression and community building that the park actively encourages.

• Managing High Expectations: With the Disney brand comes incredibly high expectations. Moriarty shares the strategies Hong Kong Disneyland employs to consistently deliver a magical experience. These include capping attendance to ensure a high-quality guest experience, implementing a reservation system, and using tiered pricing to manage demand from 13 different markets.

• The Art of Crowd Management: One of the most intriguing parts of the discussion is how the park uses entertainment to manage crowd flow. The daily parades, for instance, are strategically timed to draw guests to the main parade route, thereby reducing queues at popular attractions during peak times.

• The Role of Technology and Data: Technology plays a crucial role in enhancing the guest experience. The Hong Kong Disneyland app provides guests with a personalised itinerary, mobile ordering options, and even the ability to purchase front-of-line access for popular rides. The park also leverages data and consumer insights to understand guest behavior and continuously improve its offerings.

• The Future of the Park: Looking ahead, Moriarty reveals exciting plans for new attractions, including a brand-new Pixar experience and a major expansion of the Marvel-themed area. These developments promise to bring unique, high-tech experiences to the park, further solidifying its position as a leading global destination.

• A Lesson for the Tourism Industry: The interview concludes with a powerful message for the broader tourism industry: success lies in managing experiences and expectations. Moriarty's advice to the upcoming Disney park in Abu Dhabi is to be "distinctly Disney, but uniquely Emirati," a testament to the importance of creating a unique identity that resonates with the local culture.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone in the aviation and tourism industry, offering a masterclass in how to create and maintain a world-class visitor experience.

Join host Ged Brown for a timely and thought-provoking conversation with Tricia Duffy, strategy consultant, singer-songwriter, and founder of In Ten Years Time. Together, they explore how rethinking time, specifically, looking 10 years ahead, can help the tourism industry better navigate today’s complex challenges.

This isn’t a theoretical chat, it’s a deeply practical and inspiring look at how creativity and long-term thinking can foster more balanced, sustainable, and meaningful tourism.

From destination planning to personal fulfilment, Tricia shares insights that are just as relevant to policymakers as they are to passionate travellers.

About Tricia Duffy

Tricia Duffy is the founder of In Ten Years Time, a podcast and consultancy helping people and organisations create intentional long-term plans. A former BBC and Sky strategist turned creative entrepreneur, Tricia blends business insight with artistic sensibility. She's also a touring musician and advocate for creativity as a tool for personal growth and social change. Learn more at intenyearstime.com

Key Discussion Points

Long-Term Thinking in Tourism

• Why most tourism strategies stop at 3 years, and what’s lost as a result
• How 10-year planning helps destinations prepare for overtourism, climate shifts, and economic turbulence
• Bhutan's Gross National Happiness model as a radical alternative to GDP
• How long-term thinking improves agility, not just vision

The Creativity Crisis

• Why creativity is often undervalued in tourism and business strategy
• How a daily creative practice supports mental health and innovation
• The neuroscience of imagination and how it helps solve real-world problems
• Creativity as cultural heritage: why it's essential to protect and promote

Personal Transformation Through Travel

• What Madagascar taught Ged about joy, poverty, and western assumptions
• Tricia’s life shift: from corporate strategy to songwriting and speaking
• How creativity helped Tricia redefine her professional identity after the pandemic

Sustainable Tourism & Cultural Resilience

• Why rain, reflection, and “off-season” magic matter more than we realise
• The overlooked beauty of quieter seasons and the value they offer both visitors and communities
• How embracing the arts and slowing down can enhance travel experiences
• Using imagination as a tool for more ethical and empathetic tourism policy

Memorable Quotes

🗣️ “Ten years is far enough away that you can imagine freely without limits. That’s where the magic starts.” – Tricia Duffy
🗣️ “If you don’t know where you’re going, how can you pivot?” – Tricia Duffy
🗣️ “Good songs are written. Great songs are rewritten.” – Tricia Duffy
🗣️ “Quiet cities are beautiful cities.” – Ged Brown

Key Takeaways

1. Plan further ahead – Destinations need longer-term visions, not just quick wins
2. Creativity isn’t optional – It’s essential for innovation, resilience, and wellbeing
3. Encourage imagination – Give communities and teams the freedom to dream big
4. Think beyond visitor numbers – Consider happiness, cultural heritage, and environmental health
5. Celebrate low seasons – Find and promote the magic in quieter times and places

Why This Episode Matters

In a sector often caught in short-term cycles, driven by annual budgets, election timelines, or quarterly KPIs - this episode is a call to zoom out. Tricia Duffy offers a powerful case for reintroducing imagination, creativity, and long-term visioning into the way we design tourism.

If we want better tourism outcomes for people, planet, and places, we must learn to think bigger and longer. Whether you're a tourism board exec, DMO strategist, travel journalist, or conscious traveller, this conversation is a gentle but firm push to see beyond the next season—and shape the decade ahead.

Join host Ged Brown for a fascinating conversation with Rajan Datar, BBC presenter and host of the acclaimed Tourist Trap Podcast. Rajan shares insights from decades of travel journalism, explores the psychology behind our wanderlust, and tackles pressing challenges facing tourism today.

From his transformative gap year in Jamaica to wrestling with Mongolian athletes in the Gobi Desert, Rajan's stories illuminate both personal and professional sides of travel. This isn't just adventure tales – it's a deep dive into what drives us to explore and what the future holds for sustainable tourism.

About Rajan Datar

Rajan Datar is a veteran BBC presenter known for "Rough Guide to the World" and "The Travel Show." He's creator and host of the Tourist Trap Podcast, examining modern tourism challenges. Beyond broadcasting, he's an accomplished musician whose band has toured internationally. His unique perspective combines journalistic rigour with philosophical depth. ⁠Learn more about Rajan here⁠

Key Discussion Points

The Psychology of Travel

• Why humans are evolutionarily programmed to explore

• Curiosity vs. fear: competing forces that drive or inhibit travel

• The transformational travel movement beyond transactional tourism

Personal Travel Evolution

• Growing up in "boring" London suburbia with internationally mobile parents

• Buddhist monastery experience in Thailand and lessons about gratuitous pleasure

• Professional adventures: from Mongolia to Rio's favelas

Industry Challenges

• The Tourist Trap investigation into tourism's dark side

• Over-tourism case studies: Hallstatt, Austria's devastating impact

• Industry denial vs. acknowledgment of problems

• Aviation emissions vs. built environment debate

Memorable Quotes

"The source of all human unhappiness is the search for gratuitous pleasure" - Buddhist monk's wisdom

"We are custodians of this planet and we've got to make sure it stays good for the next generation"

"People who are naturally curious are better travellers. They travel with a positive framework"

Key Takeaways

1. Embrace curiosity over comfort - Rewarding experiences come from stepping outside your comfort zone

2. Consider your impact - Think about how your presence affects local communities

3. Travel off-season - Help reduce over-tourism by visiting during quieter periods

4. Seek transformation, not transaction - Look for experiences that challenge and change you

5. Build deeper connections - Use travel to understand different cultures genuinely

Why This Episode Matters

In an era where travel is more accessible yet controversial due to environmental and social impacts, Rajan offers a nuanced perspective that neither demonises nor glorifies tourism. Whether you're a frequent traveller, tourism professional, or simply curious about human nature, this episode offers valuable insights into why we travel, how we travel, and what impact we want to have on the world.

In this insightful episode of the Balancing Tourism podcast, host Ged interviews Stuart McDonald, founder of Travelfish, a comprehensive online travel resource focused on Southeast Asia. Stuart shares the evolution of Travelfish from its humble beginnings in 2004 to becoming a trusted guide for independent travelers, his journey into responsible tourism through his master's degree, and his upcoming ambitious 64-day overland journey from Bali to the UK.

Guest Profile: Stuart McDonald is the founder of Travelfish, an independent online travel guide focused on Southeast Asia. With nearly three decades of experience traveling in the region since 1993, Stuart has transformed from a backpacker and guidebook writer to an advocate for "less bad travel" - his term for more sustainable and responsible tourism practices. He recently completed a Master's degree in Responsible Tourism Management at Leeds Beckett University in the UK.

Notable Quotes

"Travel fish is like an old school guidebook, like a Lonely Planet or Rough Guide or whatever. But only online."

"The pandemic wasn't great for business. I went back to school, back to do my masters at Leeds in the UK in responsible tourism management, and that sort of turned me on to a lot more of the stuff around sustainable tourism and responsible travel."

"A lot of the issues that we face today in tourism are not new... they were writing about them in the seventies in academia... This knowledge has sort of been sitting around for perhaps 50 years, half a century. And the industry side of things, they're only just sort of starting to think about maybe getting on board with some of these concepts in the last decade."

This episode offers valuable insights into the evolution of sustainable tourism in Southeast Asia through the lens of Stuart McDonald's extensive experience. His journey from traditional guidebook writer to advocate for responsible tourism practices demonstrates how the industry is slowly shifting toward more sustainable models. Stuart's upcoming overland journey represents his commitment to "less bad travel" and provides a fascinating case study in making more responsible travel choices despite the inconveniences they may present. Listeners interested in sustainable tourism, Southeast Asia travel, or alternative modes of transportation will find this conversation both informative and inspiring.

Resources Mentioned:

• ⁠Travelfish website⁠: A comprehensive online travel guide for Southeast Asia
• ⁠Couch Fish Newsletter⁠: Stuart's regular updates on travel and tourism in the region
• ⁠Glass⁠: The photo-sharing platform Stuart now uses instead of Instagram
• ⁠Seat61⁠: Helpful resource for train travel planning
• ⁠Caravanistan⁠: Resource for travel in Central Asia

⁠Uncornered Market⁠: Development work in Uzbekistan and Central Asia

In this episode of the Balancing Tourism podcast, Ged interviews Andrea Grisdale, founder of IC Bellagio, about her vision for creating personalized travel experiences in Italy. They discuss the importance of unseen efforts in the travel industry, the role of small and medium enterprises (SMEs), and the significance of cultural heritage in tourism. Andrea shares insights on community-conscious travel, the challenges of overcrowding, and the benefits of slow season travel. The conversation emphasizes the need for better education and communication within the industry to promote authentic experiences and support local communities.

Sound Bites

"We have the best job in the world."

"So much of what we do, you can't see."

"It's all about the people."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to IC Bellagio and Its Vision

02:49 The Art of Creating Unseen Luxury Experiences

05:51 Personalization in Travel: Understanding Guest Needs

08:55 The Role of SMEs in Sustainable Tourism

12:01 Community Conscious Travel: Empowering Local Businesses

15:10 Addressing Overcrowding and Promoting Authentic Experiences

17:58 Cultural Heritage and Its Importance in Tourism

20:55 The Value of Low Season Travel

24:00 Future Trends in Travel and Tourism

27:08 Conclusion and Looking Ahead to the Seasonality Summit

Join us for a deep dive into the critical challenges and opportunities facing the tourism industry. In this episode, Ben Lynam, Head of Communications and Research at The Travel Foundation, unpacks the complex relationship between tourism seasonality and sustainability. Here’s what you can expect:

• Explosive Tourism Growth & Overtourism:
  Discover how steady global growth (3–4% annually) is fueling overtourism in popular destinations leading to overcrowded sites, strained local resources, and mounting environmental pressure.

• Climate Change & Shifting Patterns:
  Learn how climate change is beginning to influence traveler behavior, nudging visitors away from traditional peak seasons toward alternative, off-peak experiences.

• Destination Capacity & Real Sustainability:
  Understand why knowing a destination’s true capacity, beyond just hotel beds, is vital. Explore how capacity studies can help avoid the tipping point where visitor numbers negatively impact local communities.

• Breaking Down Silos:
  Hear why collaboration among airlines, hotels, cruise operators, and local authorities is essential to smooth out seasonal peaks and create a resilient, sustainable tourism model.

• Regulation vs. Market Forces:
  Delve into the debate over whether industry self-regulation is enough, or if stricter government regulations are needed to steer tourism towards a sustainable future.

• Controversial Topics & Cognitive Dissonance:
  Challenge conventional thinking around greenwashing as Ben discusses how some brands justify unsustainable practices. Is the current tourism model inherently unsustainable, and what can be done about it?

Whether you’re a travel industry professional or simply passionate about responsible tourism, this episode offers a candid look at the big-picture challenges—from overtourism and economic leakage to environmental impacts and fragmented industry practices. Tune in for actionable insights and provocative debates that could shape the future of travel.