Transhumanist author and political candidate Zoltan Istvan argues that AI and humanoid robots won’t just change the economy, they’ll replace most human work faster than governments can respond, and without a safety floor, society risks chaos. His solution is straightforward: Universal Basic Income as the minimum stability layer before the job apocalypse hits.

Zoltan Istvan is a futurist, writer, and longtime voice in the transhumanist movement. He’s the author of The Transhumanist Wager, a former National Geographic journalist who traveled through conflict zones, and a public figure known for running political campaigns built around radical tech-driven ideas — from longevity and human enhancement to automation policy. In this episode, he explains why he’s now running for Governor of California (2026) and why AI has pushed him away from old “pre-AI” economic thinking.

In this conversation, you’ll hear what it’s like to think like a Futurist: Choosing UBI because it’s the only way to prevent mass instability when millions of people get priced out of the labor market.

He explains, among other things:

◼️ Why he believes robots will be smarter, stronger, cheaper — and why companies will choose them (they don’t get sick, don’t sue, and don’t stop working)
◼️ Why Universal Basic Income isn’t a left vs right idea — and why even people like Milton Friedman supported versions of it
◼️ Why governments will likely implement UBI too late — after layoffs, unrest, and “pitchfork moments” have already started
◼️ What he calls an “automated abundance economy”: UBI + household robots + a new definition of the “American Dream”
◼️ The most visceral sign that this is already happening: his story of walking through San Francisco and seeing driverless cars everywhere
◼️ Why “retraining” won’t save most workers if AI improves every few months
◼️ The uncomfortable geopolitics: why the US, China, and Europe are effectively in an AI arms race — and why collaboration only happens after catastrophe
◼️ His fears about superintelligence — and why racing toward it could be even more dangerous than traditional war
◼️ His long-term transhumanist vision: merging with AI, brain–computer interfaces, and a “Star Trek” future — but only if society survives the transition
◼️ How his views have evolved since writing The Transhumanist Wager in a pre-AI era, and why he’d write a very different book today

Chapters

00:00 UBI for the AI Age
03:55 Will We Act Too Late?
05:05 Why Zoltan is Running as a Democrat
08:44 How Fast Jobs Disappear
11:23 Robot for Every Home
15:35 AI Safety & the USA vs China Race
19:41 What Trump Might Do on AI
26:00 Star Trek Future & Meaning
30:53 How Zoltan Became a Transhumanist
35:28 Writing The Transhumanist Wager
39:40 Quantum Archaeology
50:35 Why Primitivism Feels Attractive
56:41 Final Message: Prepare Now

Explore Zoltan Istvan’s work
◼️ Website: https://www.zoltanistvan.com
◼️ Campaign (California 2026): https://zoltanistvan2026.com
◼️ More interviews & talks: search “Zoltan Istvan” on YouTube / podcasts

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◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com