A bold and challenging conversation with Robert McLean, retired newspaper editor and host of the podcast Climate Conversations, explores one of the most deeply held assumptions of modern life: that progress depends on ever-increasing work and consumption. Robert makes the case for a four-hour work day as a practical response to climate breakdown, arguing that people in wealthy countries need to become financially poorer in order to use less energy, slow material throughput, and reduce the risk of the worst climate impacts. The discussion moves through what this shift could mean for transport, everyday consumption, and the texture of community life, while also reflecting on why big ideas can sound impossible until we decide to take them seriously.

Robert McLean is a retired newspaper editor and former editor of The Shepparton News in northern Victoria. After a long career in community journalism, he turned to podcasting to amplify conversations about climate change and the systemic choices that drive ecological harm. He is the creator and host of Climate Conversations, where he speaks with a wide range of thinkers and organisers, including voices from degrowth, universal basic income, and other new economy movements. Robert is also the convenor of ABC Friends Goulburn Valley, occasionally writes columns for his former newspaper, and regularly attends public lectures in Melbourne.

Voices of the New Economy is a collaborative storytelling project of NENA. The podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Changemakers Network (HCN), an Anchor Organisation of NENA, as part of its commitment to strengthening economic literacy, amplifying community innovation, and supporting pathways to systemic change. Each episode features researchers, practitioners, organisers, and everyday changemakers working across disciplines and communities to re-imagine how our economies can serve people and planet.

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Get involved: NENA members and friends are warmly invited to participate in the podcast — as interviewees, storytellers, or contributors to the NENA Storytelling Hub. To get involved, visit the Hub page or email: nena@neweconomy.org.au