In this episode: Les Jensen grew up afraid of his father's anger and spent decades unable to feel his own, until a psychiatrist asked him to "show me your anger." He and Richard talk about suppressed anger, when to let it out and when to walk away, and why "your age is none of your business."

Guest - Les Jensen hosts the New Human Living podcast and is the author of Citizen King and Forgiven Sinner: God's Last Savior. newhumanliving.com

Nothing in this conversation is medical advice.

Chapters

00:00 — Cold open: “We have an immense amount of pain right below our radar”

00:45 — Welcome: how do we live tribally?

01:26 — Meet Les Jensen

02:06 — What’s on your radar: compassion for humanity

03:08 — “I had no clue that I was a doormat”

04:13 — Growing up with a World War II father’s anger

06:51 — Isn’t walking away a good thing?

07:50 — Ulcers, digestion and the pressure cooker

08:37 — Anger as a messenger

09:32 — Suppressed anger: a case from Richard’s career

11:11 — “Show me your anger”: the session that changed Les’s life

14:48 — Scrubbing the psyche

15:29 — Tennis rackets and batakas: anger work in the 1970s

16:26 — Healing your relationship with an emotion

18:16 — Let it out, or get out? Richard’s middle ground

18:58 — The water experiment (see §6 item 1 — drop from public chapters)

21:24 — Beliefs, emotions and Echo Canyon

23:27 — “I’m 66 and … I feel like I’m fresh out of college”

25:26 — What does it mean to put your heart into something?

27:17 — The mind is a tool that wants to be the boss

28:34 — “Cracked open,” or opened up?

30:03 — Climbing Colorado’s fourteeners

31:38 — Seven weeks in hospital and the climb back from atrophy

34:41 — Why Les stopped reading books

36:41 — Citizen King and Forgiven Sinner

38:32 — The soul and intention

40:05 — Richard’s vision of a Möbius strip of souls

41:54 — Les’s children and the transformation

43:47 — Richard’s own turn: from professor to psychedelic medicine

44:17 — Les’s psychedelic past

46:47 — Existential grief

47:59 — Walking into old pain

50:13 — Break and announcements

51:41 — “Your age is none of your business”

52:27 — Closing