Data center opposition has gone from nonexistent to organized in about two years, roughly 120 moratoriums across 38 states, and it does not track proximity: Gallup finds 70% of Americans oppose a data center near them, while only 8% of opponents live near one. On this episode of Volts, David Roberts joins Energy Empire hosts Jigar Shah and Jamie Nolan, along with Arnab Pal of Deploy Action, for a crossover conversation, and his argument is that everyone is solving the wrong problem. The hyperscalers could buy their way to consent for a rounding error, batteries in basements, solar on roofs, funded schools, lower bills, and they refuse, which David reads as a symptom of low social trust that no amount of better modeling touches. “This is not a technocratic problem that you can just solve with a few switches,” he says. Thirty-six governors go to the ballot this fall having to answer for it.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro: a Volts and Energy Empire crossover

01:25 Has the AI case been made? Energy vs. AI as the real revolution

04:23 The backlash by the numbers, and hyperscalers' botched PR

08:20 Animal spirits, low social trust, and the information environment

12:46 Enshittification, lost jobs, and why governors still want data centers

15:50 The local playbook: schools, bioswales, batteries in basements

17:18 Bespoke industrial rates without setting a bad precedent

22:33 How utilities earn: spend-to-earn, the distribution black box, efficiency

30:11 Gendering the grid: gas as firm, renewables as soft

37:57 NERC's level-three alert and the case for more batteries

39:29 Both/and: distributed capacity as serious supply

45:33 Abundance's missing half: state capacity, staffing, NEPA

48:55 The midterms: 36 governors and the politics of affordability

53:33 Hope vs. fear: the Mamdani lesson and the information environment